Message Board

Did Stanley Tookie Williams deserve the death penalty? Or did the Crips co-founder redeem himself during his years behind bars? Your thoughts.

Comments

[Ashley]

Both sides of this 'debate' have their equal share of ignorant people. For those who say, "I wish I could've killed him myself", what does that say about you as a person? Wouldn't that make you a murderer as well?

The death penalty is confusing. Justice or Revenge? It also brings up the religious believes and what not. Can an act of redemption make up for a human life? I'm positive people have stated "Thou shall not kill" and "Eye for an Eye". How can anyone find closure? I can't understand the victims' families must feel nor will I try.

Stanley 'Tookie' Williams claimed his innocence until he was executed. If a person thought they were innocent to begin with, how can they apologize for something they did not do? By not apologizing, many people thought that he did not truly reform. So, if he had apologized, then the Cal. Governor would have spared his life?

[DMR]

Regarding the comments on Moynihan's book.

Moynihan was an elected representative of the same institutions that cultivated a culture of poverty. The culture of poverty manifests itself in multiple ways - violence is one of those manifestations. To blame the black male for the conditions of the black community would be similar to blaming the Native American for the conditions of the reservation. It fails to recognize the true causes of poverty. Moynihan was a product of wealth - his choice to write a book condemning poverty while blaming a portion of the impoverished communities just proved this fact.

And your choice to reference 1965 text to discuss modern day social conditions, well, that's another issue.

[don]

YES!!i believe he got what was coming to him,i just can't believe it took so many years.LOOK he gunned down 4 people,i'm sure they they all begged for there lives.but do you think he cared,i don't think so.not to mention the hundres of people,and kids that died from gangs he started. come on give me a break.charles manson should of went along time ago also,that i don't understand.what's wrong with this system,there's no justice what so ever......

[Roger Smith]

Simply--Justice was done.

[Linda Galve]

I am divided between the death penalty,But I do belive that "Tookie"Williams got what he deserved.
I am also a parent, And if There was a choice to see a person like Williams put to death then Yes,I agree 100%,People that comment haness murders out of cold blood for their own pleasures with no remorse or
thought of lives being torn apart then they do deserve to be put to death..What the Gov. did in Williams case was the right thing to do. Call the Gov.A cold blooded murder, but i'd be the first person to see that any person who takes lives the way Williams did,I'd be more than glad to give the first injection...

[tracey]

I dont see how the State of California can punish Tookie Williams by the death penalty i myself do not believe in the death penalty how can someone be punished for murder then the state turn around and do the same thing.I would much rather as a tax payer paid for him to be there for life in hopes that the books that he has written could teach young children to steer away from violence.I beleive he and whoever had a part in the injection will have to answer from the good lord above in the end.If tookie was guilty he would have had to pay in the end regardless so noone else but god should have been the judge to this case.Good luck to those who had a part in this execution.

[Dan Barton]

Vassilis, I suggest you move to France immediately.

[MRoss]

I will say this about the situation: Mr. Williams admitted to co-founding a dangerous and life-taking force decades ago, true. Did he apologize for that? No. But he did go the opposite route and speak against the violence and the killings. However, doing those things after he has claimed so many lives (directly or indirectly) is NOT enough. I'll share this... I was born in South Central LA. I lived there for 11 years. During those years, as a child, I was not allowed to walk 6 houses down the block to my Aunt's house alone because the Bloods and Crips walked the streets all day and night to stay busy. When school shopping time came around, we were limited to what we could buy and wear to school because the Bloods and Crips were swayed by colors and so was the school system. At night, it was almost redundant having to sleep on the floor for safety (to avoid stray bullets)because again, the two rival gangs were more set on killing than anything else. And I can not tell you how many of my friends and friends of the family were killed since then because of the madness gangs has created. So, for any parents out there who have any love and respect for their children, think about this situation. A man who would put your innocent under-age kids in a violent situation as this should have no mercy on his soul, especially when he went 25 years (more or less) without not one apology, remorseful action or owning up to his actions. Mr. Williams refused to supply names and help the government the way they needed his help. Had he been truly remorseful, he would have been telling names left, right and in his sleep. Americans need to grow up out of the poverty-minded ways that we have. It is eating us alive and blinding us of the truth. Some are saying that Mr. Williams was rehabilitated and had changed his life for the better. Don't be fooled. Anyone who was seriously rehabilitated of such of a crime WOULD NOT have a poor spokesperson such as Snoop Dogg (who parades his Crips affiliation) through out the songs he sings and every place else. Snoop Dogg should have been the last person Mr. Williams would want to support him. And if anything else, think of this: if Mr. Williams would have been granted clemency, who would have had to support him for the rest of his term? The American citizens. Is it worth the dollar? No! And had he eventually served his time and had been released, what kind of life would he have had? None, he would not have any skills, and nothing going for him since the only life he has known is crime and prison. Either way, it was a life waisted and tax dollars thrown away. Writing books and being given a nobel piece prize is not what he deserves for leading the life he has lead... in any circumstance (rehabilitated or not).Yes, the Bible says to forgive, but making him pay for his actions does not mean that he was not forgiven. It means that he still has to pay the price for what he did. Yes, Mr. Williams' goal was to teach the public a different way- a lesson. I would highly believe that his execution has spoken loud and clear to all who has heard of this story. So, I say, his mission has been accomplished. Now, we all should understand that you can NOT play the system.

[Bill]

He was a cold blooded killer who had and showed no remorse. I know execution is not the way to go but if you're 100% guilty then thumbs down.. America has created this problem all by it's lonely old self. When you see the kind of Black poverty we saw during Katrina it's no wonder you have gangs and gangsters. I was reminded of Soweto when I seen some of the living conditions of Southern Blacks. Even worse for some Ozark white folks.

[Robert R.]

Hey, Zulucious:

If you're so embarrassed to be an American, move to France, or something. If that's too much to ask, then try putting a sack over your head.

[Michael Burns]

Well, I followed this story briefly. My query is this. If ah,ah,eee,eee tookie williams was sorry for his haneous crimes, why did he not roll over on any of his gang members?

[Robert]

I personnally dealt with this hood from the early days. He was always defiant and had no respect for others. I think If given the chance, in the early days any peace officer worth his salt would have relished the thought of gunning him down. Mr. Williams has no social redeeming value. Now he does. He cant intimidate, threaten, rape or kill innocent people any longer. He has paid for his crimes. Justice prevails. These so called Hollywood stars, who are they??? Just a handful of washed up performers trying to m ake a name for themselves in hopes of getting another break in the business. These people are a bunch of phonies, who would know for an instant what real violence is like and how terrifying it must of been for all thedecent people living in south central L.A. They were literally prisoners in their own homes, sad but true. How many of these clebs ever spent any time at all in South Central, had some thug shooting at them for no reason, had their car jacked, been beaten or raped. These people are a bunch of jerks and as you can see there isn't enough to match match a pile of cow dung. Rest In Peace Tookie Williams you are no longer a menance to South Central and all it's good people. Your ashes should be flushed down a toilet that would be the finale of your life...

[complawman]

Congrats to Gov. Schwarzenegger for showing courage and not bowing to political pressure to grant Williams clemency. It is so common these days for no-backbone politicians to cave at the slightest raising of the "race" card -- it is a breath of fresh air when one does not. Arnold showed true leadership in making the "right" decision, rather than the most expeditious decision to appease the mob. Like it or not, our system of justice is one of the best on earth --- if Williams had committed these crimes in Angloa or South Africa, he would have been executed years ago.

[David]

There are those that are unshakably opposed to capital punishment in any form, under any circumstances. I respect the consistancy of their belief. There are others who argue that Mr. Williams' supposed "rehabilitation" merited clemmency. Setting aside the (valid) question of Williams' sincerity, we agree redemption is desired and admirable. Change, growth, self discovery and improvement however, are gifts of life.Even in the hell of prison Stanly Williams had opportunity to develop potential, reach out to others, express himself, grow older and wiser. Life behind bars was still LIFE- precisely what was stolen from his unquestionably innocent victims. No one can deny today that he is in any better or worse way than his victims. Stanly Williams' execution is neither "deterent" nor "revenge." It is simple, direct Justice.

[Joe]

Tookie killed an innocent chinese family, then boasted that he killed "buddhaheads". He's offered no apologies to anyone before he died.

I'm Asian American, and I'm just wondering where the outrage is. This man was CLEARLY a racist criminal. The NAACP, as well as many of you, speak so eloquently about his redemption (which is incomplete to begin with) but mention little about his sins.

I'm a death penalty skeptic, but the kind of mind boggling BS that's posted here stuns me. Do you know why the world hates America? Yeah you can say war in Iraq, blah blah blah. But to find out why, read the stuff that's in here. Typical American arguments and attitude. Self righteous, one sided, completely unable to approach serious, complex issues (like this) with any sense of humility and perspective, grace. If you say it LOUD enough, exude enough arrogance and bullheadedness, and put a lot of spin, rhetorics, and selective reasonings you think you're right!

I would consider voting to overturn the death penalty. But hypocrites, hear me. If this man walked up and executed your family, how unshakeable is your conviction aginst the death penalty? Please, spare me asinine arguments like "Yeah I want him dead too in that case but it doesn't mean it's right" Yawn.

Think of the Victims. ALWAYS.

[Kathy]

White people don't realize that black Americans don't see the "justice" system the same way, since it basically turned its back on them while they were enslaved, brutalized and murdered by white people for an awfully long time. It still does not have a track record of being colorblind. Black people have traditionally gotten one hell of a lot less justice and one hell of a lot more punishment than they deserved from the system, so you are not likely to hear them rushing to agree with you that any black person "got what he deserved," no matter how heinous the crime. White people assume that if he was convicted, he's guilty. That's their experience with the system. Black people know false convictions happen, from THEIR experience.

Race may not be an issue for white people, who like to yell when it is mentioned, but it remains a CENTRAL issue for millions and millions of non-white Americans. The day that white people wake up and realize and accept this, will be the day healing starts in this country.

[Greg W.]

What about the 4 innocent people murdered by this evil monster. I am a Christian who knows that the Bible (Gods Word) gives the government authority to execute such an individual.

[Alexis]

I don't think he deserve the death penalty because he was innocent. OJ, John Ramsey, and I think that these murders were commited by the same person that killed his OJ's wife and Ramsey's child.

[complawman]

This murderer killed innocent victims....took their lives away.......showed no mercy.....in a lot of ways his death was much more merciful and humane than the death of his victims....his victims are the persons for whom we should really be crying for today.

[zulucious]

Many of the opinions of the bloggers on this page are why I am embarrassed to be an american.

The death penalty is barbaric. Taking a life does not bring back the victims. It serves no purpose and only debases all of humanity. No one is deterred by the death penalty, no one is avenged by the death penalty, but society suffers from the perpetuation of senseless violence.

Every human being has something to contribute to society, Tookie was trying to give something back to society. Though, I agree, he would never have been able to give back what he'd taken. Ending his life only appeases the bloodthirsty, and makes him a martyr. (as proven by many of the comments below)

And, if you are such staunch advocates of the justice imposed by the death penalty, a life for a life... should we impose the death penalty upon GW and his cronies for killing thousands of innocent Iraqis?

"If you kill one person you are a murderer. If you kill ten people you are a monster. If you kill ten thousand you are a national hero." ~Vassilis Epaminondou

[Robert R.]

What's wrong with the death penalty being a form of revenge, especially to the victim's families? Who is arguing that on either side?

[Katie]

Tookie Williams deserved the death penalty. He co-founded one of the most violent gangs in the country...just because he claims to have "redeemed" himself-mind you only behind bars- doesn't mean that he really has changed his life around. If Williams hadn't been caught and convicted of his crimes, where would he be? He wouldn't be writing about redemption and supporting anti-violent causes. And this redemption that he spoke of, what was it really besides just talk? He wouldn't even share with the government the innerworkings of the crips, so therefore his ties to the crips were never officially broken. The man put on quite a show of redemption, but it doesn't seem truly real. An eye for an eye-he deserved the death penalty because he killed four innocent people and who knows how many more.

[seattle carol]

"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends."

[LLOYD E. SCOTT]

A MURDERER WAS FINALLY EXECUTED. THE BOTTOM LINE IS, WE VOTED FOR THE DEATH PENALTY AND FINALLY, A MONSTER WAS EXECUTED!

[Alexis]

I would like to thank all Tookie's supporters. And would like to invite you to join OJ, John Ramsey, and me to save Scott Peterson. Also, keep in mind Manson's book for children "stories from a good man." It's a great holiday gift. Thank you again.